Supercast

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Mitch Gibson:
Kids are curious and they look at these differences. Now all of a sudden they're engaged and I know that that kid is going to see them every time in the hallway and know their name. It's going to occur and I can see the light on. It's so cool.

Anthony Godfrey:
Hello and welcome to the Supercast. I'm your host, Superintendent Anthony Godfrey. He works tirelessly to improve the motor skills and mobility of students so they can get the most out of their education and all the fun activities that go along with it. On this episode of the Supercast, we meet Jordan School District physical therapist Mitch Gibson. Hear why Mitch is considered quite the character, dressing up in fun and creative costumes as a way to connect with the students in his care. It is the story of a physical therapist going above and beyond every day to ensure student success inside and outside of the classroom.

Anthony Godfrey:
We're here at the Auxiliary Services Building talking with one of our itinerant physical therapists. Mitch, introduce yourself and tell everyone a little bit about what it means to be a physical therapist in Jordan School District.

Mitch Gibson:
Great. Hey, thanks Dr. Godfrey. This is really fun. So my name is Mitch Gibson. I'm an itinerant physical therapist, like I said before. So what that means is in the school district we have about 75 schools and me and two other PTs, we cover all of those schools. So as a student in the District might need some assistance or help, we are the ones who travel to every single school and work with them. So I cover about 25 schools and so I see each of these students about once a week. I get to see countless number of staff and office and principals and work with teachers and that. And so my role is really fun. I focus on the gross motor skills and occupational therapists who work with us, they work on the fine motor skills. So that would include something like the coordination and the function, strength, range of motion, balance, working with walking and sitting, and wheelchair training, transfer training, anything that a student might interact with or need to do to improve their educational experience. The physical therapist's role in mostly special education would address that and versus occupational therapists, theirs is the fine motor skills. So they have all of those foundational components work to improve their handwriting, zippers, buttons, fasteners, bilateral hand movement stuff. So we kind of work on both sides of the coin.

Anthony Godfrey:
The gross and fine motor skills all at the same time.

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah. And so there might be kids who only have fine motor concerns or impairments and we might have the gross motor skills. So sometimes work together with them, but most of the time it's whatever the student needs. If it's a gross motor impairment, then we would step in and help with that.

Anthony Godfrey:
What age of student do you work with? You work with a wide range.

Mitch Gibson:
I do. Yeah. So I work with preschool, which starts at three, all the way up to post high school. So a student can graduate from, let's say, Riverton High School or Bingham High School. And they would move on if they choose, especially in the special ed world, to like South Valley and they cap out at 21 years old. So from three to 21 years old, I'll be working with kids.

Anthony Godfrey:
So I would imagine that working with them over that period of time, you develop some close relationships with those students.

Mitch Gibson:
It is. Yeah. I have students that I started with in preschool when I first got hired and I'm still with them today and we're still working on their goals and improving their life. I get to look back on pictures and talk with them like, oh, do you remember this? We were working on this, and it's so much fun. I get to work with them every week for years and years.

Anthony Godfrey:
That's fantastic.

Mitch Gibson:
There are diagnoses that like, for example, cerebral palsy. Cerebral palsy doesn't necessarily get better. You don't heal or get better from cerebral palsy. But as you grow and your body grows, you have different demands on yourself so you have to be able to accomplish those things with your impairments. And so the main . . .

Anthony Godfrey:
I wouldn't have thought of that. It's as they grow, as their bodies change, then they need to adapt in a different way.

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah. And different demands are put on them, such as like a preschool environment. There's a lot of sitting, crawling. There's the rug time. There's play time and then you get to first grade on and then you have recess and you have to worry about, OK, how are they going to navigate the playground? Whether it's the blacktop or the wood chips or the ramps or the playground structures. Then you get to middle school and high school and all of a sudden they're walking from their class to the cafeteria is now walking across campus and getting across campus. So the demands are different. Their bodies are different. So we establish different goals. With the IEPs that we set up, which is the individual education plan, we would set goals that we hope to accomplish every year.

Anthony Godfrey:
I would imagine that just every student has very unique needs, that there are skills that you use with multiple students, but you really have to be individualized in your approach. For sure.

Mitch Gibson:
It really shows you not only like the techniques, but every kid, every student, every child that we work with have their own interests. So one of the biggest things, of like, when I graduated from PT school, I was used to working with outpatient physical therapy. It's usually like in general like a normal member of the population with a back pain or an athlete and their motivation to get better is a little bit different than a kid. Most of the kids we work with, we're not working with them because of pain. We're working with them because of function. So I, my role and occupational therapists and physical therapists, is not only find the best course of treatment plan, but also facilitate an activity or a motivator that's going to allow them to participate in that game. Because I can't ask a kid, or “I want you to do Russian deadlifts,” you know, “three sets, five reps with this much weight. Okay, go off the corner and go do that.” I can tell an adult that, but I can't tell the kid that.

Anthony Godfrey:
You could tell me to do Russian deadlifts and I still wouldn't be doing Russian deadlifts or any other kind of deadlift.

Mitch Gibson:
Or remaining deadlifts, whatever it is.

Anthony Godfrey:
Whatever, whatever.

Mitch Gibson:
So, so because of that, like, I have to be a little bit more creative and in a way I have to be like a child entertainer. That works with my skill sets as I've had a whole list of my whole life of working with kids in different settings.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

Mitch Gibson:
From summer camps to special ed, you know, programs to special and picks, snowboarding coach. So, and so all, all of those things be like, okay, they like this activity. So let's build their goals off of this kind of kind of activity.

Anthony Godfrey:
So it's about fun and function.

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah.

Anthony Godfrey:
Not just function.

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah. So my favorite complaint is when I take a kid out of a class and the other students are so jealous and mad because their friend gets to go play with Mr. Mitch, you know, doing these activities, you know, in the hallways and the gym and the playground, “they get, they, they get to go play to the playground and we have to stay in class.” And so that's my favorite. When the student is enjoying it so much and the kids are jealous that they don't get to play because really we're just playing. They don't know that I'm working on trunk control or strength training of their hips and knees and ankles.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

Mitch Gibson:
You know, they, they just think that we're, we're here to play.

Anthon Godfrey:
Yeah. When they don't realize that they're working on getting better, that's, that's really the magic right there.

Mitch Gibson:
And that's the goal.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

Mitch Gibson:
Sometimes that's not the case.

Anthony Godfrey:
Sure.

Mitch Gibson:
You do get a lot of kids who cry when they see me because they know they're going to work harder. They're going to work.

Anthony Godfrey:
Stay with us when we come back, hear about the collection of costumes Mitch has managed to acquire and how it truly does help him connect with students when he wears them.

Male Voice:
Never miss an episode of the Supercast by liking and subscribing on your favorite podcasting platform. Find transcripts for this episode and others at supercast.jordandistrict.org.

Female Voice:
They're out on the job in the rain, sleet, snow, ice, and in the sunshine. As Jordan School District students navigate their way to and from school every day, we are truly grateful for our city crossing guards, always vigilant and looking out for students to ensure everyone's safety because they work so hard protecting our kids. Let's give those crossing guards a hand. If you're driving near or around schools, slow down, pay attention, watch for students and staff, and follow instructions from the school crossing guards, and know our cities are always looking to hire crossing guards. If you like kids and need some flexible hours, contact your local city and apply to be a crossing guard today. Together, let's make this a safe and successful school year.

Anthony Godfrey:
You're always dressed in a costume of some kind or something exciting. I don't know if you have multiple hats with propellers on top or if it's just the same one, but I've noticed over the years, I, before I knew who you were, I'm like, who is that guy down at the end of the hall and what is he up to? Because you always are making the most of the moment. When you come into a classroom, it's an entrance.

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah. Yeah, I could say. Yeah. It's a good excuse to really showcase what schools and elementary schools, like all of these things, you know, provide. It's not just this like warehouse where we teach kids, but it's such a fun environment. And I get to be on this side of things rather than the student where I get to walk down the hall and I get to see the work that the teachers and the staff put in of decorating the hallways and really going all out. I get to support that with being silly and fun and sometimes adding a little bit of chaos to kids walking down the hall because they see a rainbow unicorn and they're all distracted.

Anthony Godfrey:
But look, we all get distracted by a rainbow unicorn. I think that's fair.

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah. Yeah. So I get to wear these things and set myself apart and help the kids hopefully find it that it's fun and it makes it more effective for me in my style. Not every PT is like me. And sometimes, like over the summer break when I when I shadow it, you know, outpatient PT clinics and everyone's all professional. I still show up in costumes and it causes a scene, but it's great.

Anthony Godfrey:
I like that you stay in character wherever you go.

Mitch Gibson:
Of course.

Anthony Godfrey:
What are some of your favorites? We've seen the storage rooms here at the District. But what does the storage room look like at home for all of your costumes?

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah. My wife allows me to have one closet.

Anthony Godfrey:
One closet?

Mitch Gibson:
One closet for my costumes. It is very full and it gets full every it seems like every week of October. I try to dress up for every day of October because if I dress up outside of October, people start getting weirded out. But if I but if I do October, it gives me this and then I can hit December and start wearing all my Christmas stuff. But ultimately anything can be a costume. So, you can make anything a costume. Here's some pictures.

Anthony Godfrey:
Oh, there's your Professor Mitch.

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah, this was I believe this is Midas Creek and their theme this year was Harry Potter.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

Mitch Gibson:
That's why I was Professor. But this is during COVID. So this is my excuse during COVID is like wear my shield. I was like, what can I dress like to wear the shield all the time?

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

Mitch Gibson:
And then this is another good one.

Anthony Godfrey:
Oh, wow.

Mitch Gibson:
Bluffdale.

Anthony Godfrey:
The sunflower. Thank you. All right, we'll post some of these for . . .

Mitch Gibson:
No (laughing)

Anthony Godfrey:
Mario Mitch right there.

Mitch Gibson:
Mario Mitch. Midas Creek. I gotta say they are on top of it with the best themes. And not only they come with the idea, but it is decked out.

Anthony Godfrey:
It's all in.

Mitch Gibson:
It's they do everything. This is like Olympic year.

Anthony Godfrey:
The gold medal teacher. Very nice.

Mitch Gibson:
Oh, South, South Jordan.

Anthony Godfrey:
Wow.

Mitch Gibson:
I wore a wig and that mustache is made of two. Oh, sorry. The eyebrows are made of two mustaches.

Anthony Godfrey:
Oh, really?

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah.

Anthony Godfrey:
And that's a that's a that's a serious mustache.

Mitch Gibson:
Thank you. There's that one.

Anthony Godfrey:
I think I might have seen that one, actually. And I love what you said to me the other day that this elevates the students that you work with. It gives them prominence in the school, the fact that you come in and you're really making a statement when you arrive.

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah. And it just kind of the hope is like, I mean, a lot of these kids already feel different. And so I want it to not be like I'm pulling them out of class for bad reasons, but it's hopefully something good that they look forward to and that other kids can see this. There's lots of times I'm like walking down the hall and I might have a student with a variety of diagnosis, but like trying to walk with the gate trainer. And it's my . . . I've had a few moments like this and it just kind of like warms my soul when this is . . .  a kid can be walking by and not know what's going on. It's like, why doesn't this third grader know how to walk?

Anthony Godfrey:
Right.

Mitch Gibson:
And at that moment, it could either lead them down to just confusion and, you know, uncertainty or bullying or all of these things. And I'm like, “oh, I'm so glad you're here. This is my friend so and so and they're learning to walk and you must be a really good walker. I need your help to show them how to walk.” So to get all of a sudden, all of a sudden, this student who a few seconds before really had no idea what was happening is now walking as exaggerated as they possibly can and encouraging and supporting and teaching this other kid that they've never met before. Or maybe they've seen but didn't understand and didn't really know who they are or what's going on with them because kids are curious and they look at these differences and now all of a sudden they're engaged. And I could leave and I know that that kid is going to see them every time in the hallway and know their name and going to encourage them. And it's . . . I get to see it light up. And it's so cool.

Anthony Godfrey:
It's so important that you have that mentality to make the most of every moment, to connect a student with a diagnosis with a student who's curious about what's going on. And all of a sudden, there's a connection. There's belonging snd that student really feels like he's a part of something. Yeah, I love that.

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah, it's a really special moment. Along with that, not really a part of like what our role is, but we see these kids who have these impairments and so it limits them for what they can do. And so all of a sudden, they don't have quite as many friends and they don't know what to do at recess. So every once in a while do like class activities and so it's still based off of the students goals and what we're working on.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

Mitch Gibson:
But I make it pivotal to this competition or class activity with their whole their . . .  all of their peers. And so all of a sudden, those peers need my student to be successful on their team. They want them on their team because that's the key to their success. We create games to build relationships and show them that they're not as different as you think they are. Or sometimes their differences make them even more exciting and fun. And they can incorporate those things and do those at recess and do those that during inside recess or at PE and find ways to still engage and be friends with them after I leave.

Anthony Godfrey:
There are so many layers to what you do and to how you lift students, not just physically, but in every way. It's very inspiring to talk with you about what you do and I know how much it means to you. Although you're not directly responsible for Unified Sports, I know that this movement in the last couple of years has been a big positive impact on the students that you work with. Talk to me about that.

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah. It's been so much fun to watch them translate the things that we're teaching and working on their goals because our goals are supposed to support the teacher. Ultimately, it's like it affects the reading, writing, you know, all of those things. But we can incorporate these goals and facilitate different changes in their life outside of this. A lot of those things can be through Unified Sports. I've had the great pleasure of working with these students in the elementary level mostly, and their sports day at the end of the year. And so we were asked to help support all of that happens there. I end up being the MC there and get to run down the track with these kids or use the wheelchairs down, you know, and all of these skills that we have been working on for year and year and year, years and years of, you know, helping them find joy in like a sports setting that they may not have had before. And now Unified Sports has grown so much that it's not just elementary that we've been doing for years, but it's middle school, it's high school. And whether they can do their sports through running or soccer or basketball or just creating a little skill that they are trying to work on that they can showcase at halftime or something else. And so a lot of these kids are like just throwing a ball or just kicking a ball or playing bocce or just adapting their skill set to beat a certain goal that they have. Those are our kids. Those are those are who we work with and we build such good relationships with. So we're cheering and yelling and I hope that we can continue to see it grow. Like I say before, it's not just about the impact of these kids, but the impact of the whole student body who rally behind these kids and really support them and see their value and see all the cool things that they can do.

Anthony Godfrey:
We can celebrate everyone's personal best.

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Anthony Godfrey:
Well, I have seen you run down the track and you are very good at pacing it so that it looks like you're making maximum effort and yet somehow you lose. So it's pretty it's pretty impressive.

Mitch Gibson:

The wind blows really hard just on my lane.

Anthony Godfrey:
Right. It is. It is really remarkable. One day. One day you'll get there.

Mitch Gibson:
Yeah, yeah. I've yet to win a race.

Anthony Godfrey:
Well, Mitch, thank you very much for talking with us today and for the incredible specialized individualized support you give to these students.

Mitch Gibson:
You're welcome. It's so much fun. Like, it's great to be able to play with these kids, go on the playground and really change their life and get to know their families and the staff and be a part of their medical world. But it's also here in the education world. Yeah, it's so much.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah. Well, thank you.

Mitch Gibson:
You're welcome.

Anthony Godfrey:
Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Supercast. Remember, “Education is the most important thing you will do today!” We'll see you out there.

Lacey Paschall:
So you don't have to have any driving experience. You just need to be somebody who loves working with kids, who is passionate about safety, who wants to be a really important part of the community.

Anthony Godfrey:
That sound of the air brakes and the door opening, that's really exciting. And here come the kids.

Lacey Paschall:
There are a lot of kids who we are their only safe ride to and from school.

Anthony Godfrey:
Hello and welcome to The Supercast. I'm your host, Superintendent Anthony Godfrey. Some classrooms on wheels are making their way to kindergarten and first-grade students throughout Jordan School District right now. The classrooms are actually big yellow school buses. On this episode of The Supercast, find out how our dedicated school bus drivers have come up with an entertaining and hands-on training course to keep kids safe on the school bus. Hear how students are loving the lessons which will save student lives.

Anthony Godfrey:
We're here at Copper Canyon Elementary to talk about bus safety with Lacey. Introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your role in Jordan School District.

Lacey Paschall:
I'm Lacey Paschall. I'm a trainer for our Transportation department and I am the coordinator of the Safety in the Schools program. So I do all of the back side of it. I do all the scheduling, contacting all the schools. I schedule all of my drivers. I train all of my drivers on exactly what our expectations are and then I've been out of schools as well this year helping them out.

Anthony Godfrey:
Now most people when they think about school safety, the first thing they think about is not bus safety. But it's really important that students know how to ride the bus safely, board the bus safely, and you start early. You start with kindergarten and first graders to make sure that they are all ready to make the most of their busing experience and to do so safely. So tell us about what the program looks like and how frequently students are trained and all of that.

Lacey Paschall:
That's a great question. So we start with the kindergarten and first grade, like you said, because we want to build that foundation of safety as early as possible. So we train them once a year and we start at the beginning of the year when it's going to be fresh in their minds a little bit better rather than at the end of the year when they're entering into summer. We teach them about the danger zones around the bus. We teach them about watching for their driver's signal, that it's safe to cross, always looking both ways. We make it fun too so that it's not a scary thing. Another thing that we do is we teach them about emergency exit evacuations as well, which if they ride the bus, they do twice a year anyway. But we take them out and we teach them that so that they know that that's not scary either. And all of this is, it's an important thing and safety's cool. We make it really fun and interactive and engaging.

Anthony Godfrey:
So we're talking about getting on the bus safely. We're talking about getting off the bus safely in case of an emergency. Talk to me about the rules of being on the bus safely.

Lacey Paschall:
We actually go over all those with them, too, and a really fun little slide show that I think that the kids like. So we talk about, you know, always remaining seated, no legs in the aisle way facing forward, nothing, no body parts out the window or throwing objects out the window. We explain to them, you know, if you can't fit it in your backpack, if it can't fit on your lap, if it doesn't belong at school, it doesn't belong on the bus.

Anthony Godfrey:
Okay. Do you show a clip of Napoleon Dynamite about what not to do throwing something out the back of the bus on a stream?

Lacey Paschall:
I should. I do have lots of really fun pictures for them.

Anthony Godfrey:
No, actually, I think that would be counterproductive. Okay, so those are all good rules. And, you know, some of us may forget that for a young child, it's pretty exciting to ride the bus. They're excited about it.

Lacey Paschall:
Yeah.

Anthony Godfrey:
Do you train only those who are going to be riding the bus or do you do it for every student in every school?

Lacey Paschall:
It's for every student at every school because the thought is whether or not they're on the bus now, they could ride the bus in the future. Every kid is going to go on a field trip at some point. So we want to make them excited about being on the bus, whether or not they ride the bus every day to and from school.

Lacey Paschall:
And the field trip is an important point. They're going to be on the bus at some point, so it's important for them to have this training. When you go to an all-walk-in school, and we do have a few of those that have no busing, just because of how close to the school all the students are, is there some added enthusiasm from kids who know they don't get to ride the bus every day, and they're like, "Wow, today we get to get on and off the bus."

Lacey Paschall:
I think so. I was at a school yesterday, and though there is a bus that does -- there's only one, and it's a pretty big group of kids there. So almost none of the kids that were in the assembly actually ride the bus, and they were like, "This is so cool!"

Anthony Godfrey:
You know, it was a good time of life when riding the bus was one of life's big pleasures, you know? There's a bus arriving right now. So talk to me about the things that you teach students about getting on the bus safely.

Lacey Paschall:
One of the things that we teach them is to be five minutes early to your stop so that you're never running late, you're never going to chase the bus.

Anthony Godfrey:
We had a nickname when I was growing up for the kids that were running for the bus while we were all watching.

Lacey Paschall:
What’s that?

Anthony Godfrey:
I'm not going to say -- I don't think it's bad, but maybe I just didn't understand it. But it was a very strange kind of combination of words, and I just remember not wanting to be called that name. It's like, "Mom, I have to leave. I cannot be the blank for today." And anyway, so it's a big deal to be on time.

Lacey Paschall:
It is a big deal to be on time, and that's something that's really unique and cool that we teach them is like a time management factor.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah, right.

Lacey Paschall:
So that's really cool and unique. We also teach them about lining up so that they're safely away from the roadway when we get there, and I think that's especially important because we aren't there to keep them safe until we get there.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah, they have to be in charge of themselves until the bus arrives. And, you know, the idea of being on time and giving yourself some time so that you can be safe and not be in a hurry, that's going to help them when they're driving. That's going to help them in every aspect of their lives. You're going to avoid accidents if you give yourself a little bit of time.

Lacey Paschall:
Absolutely. I totally agree. The other cool thing that I think that we teach them unknowingly is a little bit of independence because getting to walk to your bus stop by yourself, that's a really cool independent thing that they...

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

Lacey Paschall:
The opportunity that they have to do that is really cool.

Anthony Godfrey:
There's a lot they learn from that. That's true. So that sound of the air brakes and the door opening, that's really exciting. And here come the kids. Let's talk about boarding the bus. You talked about watching for the bus driver to signal and to notice you. Pedestrians are told that when you cross the street, make sure the driver... You make eye contact with the driver. So talk to us more about that.

Lacey Paschall:
Our biggest one, my kids know, and we teach this in our training department. We teach all of our drivers to teach their students that the kids don't enter into the roadway until the doors open. If the doors are open, that means that we've checked, it's safe to proceed, there's no oncoming traffic. The afternoon is actually the most dangerous time of the day for us because that's when we're generally going to have kids crossing. And that's the biggest one about our eye contact with them and watching for our little pointer signal. They're expected to take five big steps out and over so that we can see them. If they're too close to the bus, we can't see their little bodies. We teach them to still look for both ways, to still check for themselves, then look back at the driver and double check. So it's a big piece of teamwork in keeping them safe.

Anthony Godfrey:
So five steps out so that they're far enough in front of the bus. It's like the billboards that say when you're passing a semi, you have to be able to see two headlights in the rearview mirror or else you aren't far enough ahead of them to change lanes.

Lacey Paschall:
That's exactly what it is because we're up so high and we have a lot of blind spots that I don't think people realize about. Even though our mirrors are fantastic and I personally feel like I can see a lot more in my bus than I can in my car, there are still a lot of things that we can't see. If they're short, and even I'm short, so if I'm right up at the bumper, it is going to be difficult for you to see me when you're sitting that high up.

Anthony Godfrey:
Well, the stakes couldn't be higher in keeping children safe. I drove a bus only in the parking lot, only with high levels of supervision and that was pointed out to me. “Okay, here are all your mirrors, check all your mirrors, look at all the view that you have. Okay, now I'm going to hop off the bus and I'm going to show you how I can hide in some blind spots despite all the mirrors that are in place.” And they would hide there and it's incredible. If you aren't far enough out from the bus, you really cannot be seen. So that stepping five steps in front of the bus is a really, really important point.

Lacey Paschall:
We have a . . . we call it a cushion of safety or our danger zones. So there's 12 feet to the sides and 12 feet to the front and the back is the danger zone. If you're there, you're potentially in our blind spot. Even though one of the things that we teach our drivers, it's called a five-point mirror check. So they're checking all their mirrors in a specific pattern for safety. It only works if they're not in those blind spots. It only works if they're outside in their cushion of safety. They're not in our danger zone. So that's one of the reasons that we're teaching them this and we teach them about like, you know, the yellow lines at all the elementary schools. That keeps them actually out of our danger zone when we're arriving at the school so that they're not too close to our mirrors, things like that.

Anthony Godfrey:
I like safety cushion more than danger zone.

Lacey Paschall:
I do too. It sounds a lot less intense and scary.

Anthony Godfrey:
I keep thinking of Kenny Loggins music keeps, you know, popping into my head. But that's for those from the 1900s.

Lacey Paschall:
Do you guys remember what the danger zone is? Very good. So this side of the yellow line is the danger zone. Can you guys show me what finger we need to see when our bus driver wants us to cross?

Anthony Godfrey:
Stay with us when we come back. Students board the school bus for some hands-on safety training.

Male Voice:
Never miss an episode of the Supercast by liking and subscribing on your favorite podcasting platform. Find transcripts for this episode and others at supercast.jordandistrict.org.

Female voice:
Are you looking for a job right now? Looking to work in a fun and supportive environment with great pay and a rewarding career? Jordan School District is hiring. We're currently filling full and part-time positions. You can work and make a difference in young lives and education as a classroom assistant or a substitute teacher. Apply to work in one of our school cafeterias where our lunch staff serves up big smiles with great food every day. We're also looking to hire custodians and bus drivers. In Jordan School District, we like to say people come for the job and enjoy the adventure. Apply today at employment.jordandistrict.org.

Lacey Paschall:
Okay, we're going to get on the bus real quick. I want you two to a seat and I want you to go all the way to the back of the bus. You're going to start with this and we'll do a single file line. When we go on the bus, I want you guys to hold the handrails when you go up the bus. Alright, come on, dear.

Anthony Godfrey:
I'm sure that many people listening to this think, "How do I get to be part of the Jordan School District Transportation Department?" So what do they need to do if someone wants to be a driver?

Lacey Paschall:
That's an awesome question. So you don't have to have any driving experience. You just need to be somebody who loves working with kids, who is passionate about safety, who wants to be a really important part of the community, because there are a lot of kids who we are their only safe ride to and from school. We do classes quite frequently. We're actually starting one in November, so if you go on and apply we haven't even started our interviews for that. So, if you go on and apply, it could be in our November training class and we teach you everything. So, we teach you everything that you need to know to pass your test. We actually have a testing facility on our property and you get the opportunity to work with a lot of really awesome trainers. We have a really dynamic team, so it's really cool.

Anthony Godfrey:
It's a very engaging job. You get to know a lot of people and the kids love you and you're a really important part of their day. So anyone who's interested, check it out. Learn from Lacey.

Students:
Hi, Lacey!

Ms. Gaffney:
I'm sure the lovely principal already mentioned my name is Ms. Gaffney. I'm a school bus driver and I've been a school bus driver for six years. So, I know a lot about being a school bus driver. One of my very favorite things about being a school bus driver is coming here to show you guys about how to be safe on a school bus.

Anthony Godfrey:
Let's talk about exiting the bus in case of emergency, which hopefully we don't have to do. But I actually remember as a kid hopping off through the emergency door, and I honestly don't know whether it was a drill or not, but it was pretty crazy to think the back opens up and I can hop out. It seemed very high also at the time to be jumping out the back of that bus. And it is high, especially for some of our younger students. So let's talk about that safety feature.

Lacey Paschall:
That's a really fun thing. You'd think that it would scare the kids, but they are so excited to go out a door that they're not supposed to go out of. So, when we bring them in the bus and we kind of start going over reiterating the rules again, and then we talk about the emergency exits. One of the things I always start with is I want you to look for a red handle because all of our emergency exits, they're identified with words, but you know, younger kids who may struggle with reading. They're always going to be identified with a red handle. So I make them all point them out. They get to point out the ones in the roof and they really hope we're going out the roof, which of course we're not. We demonstrate . . .

Anthony Godfrey:

But there is an option to go out the roof.

Lacey Paschall:
There is the option to go out the roof. We have two roof hatches on our buses. They actually pop open for some airflow, too. So that's nice in the summer. But you know, we demonstrate and show them the windows.

Anthony Godfrey:
It’s like putting the top down on a convertible.

Lacey Paschall:
That's exactly what you're like. Oh, it's so nice.

Anthony Godfrey:
It's summertime, summertime.

Lacey Paschall:
But we show them like the sound and we explain to them, you know, this isn't scary, but I want you to be aware of what this noise is. Then we talk about how to safely get off the bus because we don't want them to get hurt while they do it, but we want them to be aware of how to do it in case they have to. We teach them zombie arms, which makes it a little bit fun. So, because they have to put their arms straight out because that gives them a support that we can bring them off the bus without injuring them. And they like the zombie arms.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

Lacey Paschall:
We get them off the bus with the help of another driver or a teacher or even an older student.

Anthony Godfrey:
Then you grab the zombie arms and help them down.

Lacey Paschall:
Yeah, we grab the zombie arms, wrists and elbows, and then we tell them to walk away to a safe location.

Anthony Godfrey:
Because unfortunately, there's not an inflatable ramp that automatically pops out like on an airplane.

Lacey Paschall:
That would be great.

Anthony Godfrey:

To just slide down. That would be fun.

Lacey Paschall:
I would love doing emergency activities.

Anthony Godfrey:
Maybe it would be the first district to have those. OK. Well, Lacey, thank you so much for everything you do to keep our students safe. You have been a driver as well. So tell me about everything you've done in Transportation.

Lacey Paschall:
Well, I started almost nine years ago. I started as a bus attendant, actually, on our special needs routes. I have a big heart for special education. When I started driving, I was 23, and I started as a special needs driver. So that was really cool. It kind of came full circle. I had been a part of our training department in helping our special needs attendants and training them while I was an attendant. So, I was already kind of a figment of the training department. I actually didn't even have a driver's license when I started working here, and the trainers taught me how to drive. I was so scared to drive a car. So, I decided I wanted to drive and I was like, well, I trusted these guys to teach me how to drive my car.

Anthony Godfrey:
So all your driving has been with Jordan District.

Lacey Paschall:
It has. Yeah.

Anthony Godfrey:
I love that. That's awesome.

Lacey Paschall:
I've kind of I feel like they kind of raised me and I don't know. They instilled in me a little a sense of safety that's really important. I think that that's why I'm so passionate about what I do. But I got the opportunity as I worked through being a driver, a new driver. I started doing our driver evaluations for new drivers as well. Then I started working on training our special needs drivers and wheelchair securements, and different, just different aspects that they need to be aware of. Then I slowly started working on just training drivers in general and now I'm a full-time trainer with the District. I was bestowed the opportunity last school year to bring back the Safety in the Schools program for in person. We had kind of gone away from it in 2020 for obvious reasons and it had some hiccups last year because it was new to me. It was new to everybody else. And I've been so impressed with my drivers this year who are also just as passionate about what they do. They love the kids and it has been really fun to watch the growth even in just one year. So, I'm really excited to see what next school year will look like for the presentations as well.

Anthony Godfrey:
Well, there's a lot of hard work that goes into keeping students safe and you are at the center of it. Training students, but also training drivers so that they're at their best for students. Thank you very much for everything that you do and we're so happy to have you in Jordan District.

Lacey Paschall:
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

Anthony Godfrey:
Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Supercast. Remember, “Education is the most important thing you will do today!” We'll see you out there.

David Bowman:
So these threats look like, yeah, hacker kids in basements all over the world. It looks like cyber criminal gangs. We even have fairly consistent attacks from nation threat actors.

Anthony Godfrey:
Let's talk about the scale of the threat.

David Bowman:
Wow, shock and awe number of about four million a day.

Anthony Godfrey:
Hello and welcome to the Supercast. I'm your host, Superintendent Anthony Godfrey. October is National Cybersecurity Awareness Month, a time to reflect on the many things we do as a school district to keep student data safe and protect employees and families from falling victim to phishing and other scams. On this episode, find out how partnering with parents and the community can make a big difference in defending against cyberattacks and reducing risks online. We're talking today with David Bowman, the Systems and Security Manager for Jordan School District. Thanks for taking some time.

David Bowman:
Yeah, absolutely.

Anthony Godfrey:
We want to talk about all things cybersecurity. First of all, is cyber like an outdated word? Is that like a Ray Bradbury word, or is that the term, cybersecurity?

David Bowman:
You know, the only other way I kind of express it now is the idea of cyberdefense.

Anthony Godfrey:
Cyberdefense, but cyber is right in there.

David Bowman:
Cyber is still the word.

Anthony Godfrey:
Cyber feels like a 50's sci-fi word, so I kind of like it though. It has a little bit of a nostalgic sound to it.

David Bowman:
It's something, it's a word in IT that hasn't changed in 30 years. That's kind of different.

Anthony Godfrey:
Well, let's talk about cybersecurity. Let's talk first about student data. What do we do to protect student data? There are strict laws in place and I know that sometimes we've actually frustrated some folks because we don't give access to certain apps that refuse to follow the rules when it comes to student data privacy. I know we're very serious about that, so let's talk about exactly what we do.

David Bowman:
You know, the biggest piece of what we do that makes it more effective for us to help protect things is it's intentional. Access to student data, what it's being used for, where it's going, we don't give or share that data to anyone without an intentional evaluation of why it's needed, where it's going, and do they need all of the things they're asking for or just some of the things.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah, let's make sure that we're only giving what they absolutely need for us to be able to work effectively with them.

David Bowman:
Yeah, so a good example of what that might have looked like in the past is, you know, we have a lot of folks that may offer grants or educational opportunities like a higher ed institution. Traditionally in the past years ago, we just said, "Okay, here's student records about the students participating." Now we've learned from past history of how cybersecurity incidents have taken place, and in working with our partners that want data that they actually just need to know what grade the student is in and a first and last name and that's really all they need to help them get access to that additional resource, so we don't give them all the things.

Anthony Godfrey:
So we're more thoughtful about the information that we give, first of all. I remember buying things with a credit card and the receipt would have your entire credit card number printed out on it, so you had to be careful about throwing away the receipt. When you had an email, you know, you emailed to get your password or to reset your password on a website. They just emailed you your password instead of a link to change it. So I think over the years, the amount of information we share and the way we share it has had to evolve just based on technology and what people can be up to using technology.

David Bowman:
Well, and not only that, but we have learned that as an institution with data or whatever that is, the pushback that we provide to vendor partners or other businesses on, “Listen, we don't want you to do that with our data.,” or, “No, you can't have that type of data,” that actually is what effectuates the greatest amount of change because a lot of folks won't just stop collecting data on their own. So even here at Jordan, there's a what we call a metadata dictionary that has a list of every piece of identifying information that's collected about students that are in our systems. They're indexed on the website publicly of what pieces of data are provided to what vendors or different things along those lines. Now part of that is driven by the fact that state law made that necessary, but the good news for us is that wasn't really a new process for us. So the types of things we do now are not only anytime something new is coming in we have that evaluation. But because we've done that for a long time, most of the tools that we already have in place are being effectively audited for that. So we even have internally at the District. We have a data privacy committee, so anytime a new piece of software or tools that are being used in the District come up, they have to be reviewed by the committee. So we have a data privacy officer and a data security officer and we have a data learning officer to kind of help us evaluate . . .

Anthony Godfrey:
The DLO. Yes of course.

David Bowman:
And to help us evaluate what all of those things look like.

Anthony Godfrey:
Sure well, I appreciate the efforts that everyone makes to be sure that we keep that student data protected. Let's talk about the scale of the threat of the attacks that we have on our system every day. You are an expert that's recognized throughout the state. You were presenting to the group of superintendents from throughout the state and you asked them to estimate in Jordan School District how many attacks do they think we have per day. The numbers they guessed were woefully low; they were way off. Talk about the number of attacks we have in any given day.

David Bowman:
The wow shock and awe number is about four million a day.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

David Bowman:
So when that number comes up people go, “What? Four million a day? Like, what does that look like and what does that mean?”

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

David Bowman:
That really kind of helps people understand the scope of why it takes so much for us to protect that data that we're such critical stewards over. So these threats look like, yeah, hacker kids in basements all over the world. It looks like cyber criminal gangs. We even have fairly consistent attacks from nation threat actors. These things have been constantly focused at us, at school districts. Now one of the things that, because then the follow-up question is, “Well, why a school district?”

Anthony Godfrey:
Right.

David Bowman:
What is it you know they want to have, they want to change in credit cards they don't . . .

Anthony Godfrey:
Right, you want to change in eighth grader’s English grade, you know that's not . . .

David Bowman:
Well, and you know what. In my ten years as a security person in education, I've never caught a kid trying to change their grade. Now when I was in school and the hacking movies all showed kids wanting to change their grades and that's why they would be hacked.

Anthony Godfrey:
Well, when I wanted to change my grade, I just drew another leg on the F to make it into an A. That's all you did, you know.

David Bowman:
You know I wouldn't want to inadvertently disclose any private identifiable information so we maybe don't want to talk about your specific grade transcripts. But ultimately that's the biggest piece where it used to be we fought against people that had some experience or were after some individual change. Now what we fight is large groups trying to get it all at once.

Anthony Godfrey:
Get access to the system as a whole.

David Bowman:
Yeah, they want the whole thing and they want all of those records that we have, in particularly the records about our students. The fresher the data is or the least likely it is to be monitored, the more value it has. So an individual student record on, you know, the dark sides of the internet might be worth six dollars. Me, as a public school employee, is maybe worth a dollar. It's just the scale of what the value is is significantly different.

Anthony Godfrey:
Now how do we know that people have not had access to the information that we have as a district?

David Bowman:
No tool is perfect, so to say it absolutely has never happened would not be something I want you to record me saying. But we have multiple controls in place on all of the data, in particular the large repositories of data, to alert us when something shares more data than it should. So we have a monitoring tool in our Google Space is an example where, if someone were to share personally identifiable information, it actually pops up to the user and says, “Hey this is personally identifiable information. Are you sure this should be shared externally?”

Anthony Godfrey:
I think you've walked down to talk with me when I just downloaded a large file, and you know, asked me what was up and why so much was being downloaded at the same time. So I feel very confident in the tools that we have in place, just alerting us, one of those tools being you watching alerts.

David Bowman:
Well, and I would tell you the biggest piece that we have, too, that really makes a significant difference is the role that our parents and our teachers spend in this room. So yeah, we have folks that have access to lots of things and the more access you have to things, the more you get to spend time with the hacker on staff at Jordan District and get little lectures about what's going on on your computer or data.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah, that hacker being you, of course.

David Bowman:
I have no idea what you're talking about.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yes that's right.

David Bowman:
You know the . . .  but even coming down to our students and our cybersecurity programs at the JATC. Like we are helping to teach our students those skills and that translates out into them helping mention to their teachers like, “Hey, is that a particularly secure idea?” Lots of times when we identify challenges or things going on, our parents are our biggest resource because they can have a conversation with their kiddo about, “Hey, what did you see about this?” or “Why are they asking this information?” But for us, one of the things we've really tried to do in Jordan is not take a punitive approach to students that are expressing a significant curiosity and the functionality of security and systems. So instead of saying, “Okay, we're expelling you because you tried to hack something.” Instead, we're able to reframe that and try to understand what were you curious about that you were trying to achieve. A couple of years ago, we had and this was the youngest kid I've ever seen it seen do it, but we had a fourth-grade student who was messing around on his Chromebook trying to play a game and he was attempting to play a game and got it to work. The teacher calls us just all flabbergasted about, like, “He's in fourth grade. What's he doing? What's going on?” We got a chance with the principal and the teacher and his parents to sit down and talk to him and he had expressed some real interest in trying to code something. You know a lot of our advanced classes around that nature aren't set up in the elementary school realm. But we talked with this student and he talked with his teacher and identified one of the things that his teacher has to do every day is send a report to the cafeteria of who needs hot lunch or cold lunch.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

David Bowman:
And so the student said, “Well, could I program something that could just send an automated email to the cafeteria to give them the lunch count?” So the teacher and the parents all worked together. We provided a controlled resource to the student and then he built the system that the whole school started using to help them send the lunch count to the cafeteria, so they knew what they needed. That's that type of intentional curiosity. We find that when we hone that and encourage that it's infinitely better for our student growth but then that carries on to our staff and to our students' homes. Ultimately, we have security folks in the District but there's 57,000 students and 7,500 staff, and almost a hundred thousand computers connected to all of the things, and we only succeed at it when we do it as a group.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah. I can see that it takes everybody working together. So what are some of the things that we do to defend the District's system?

David Bowman:
One of the biggest things that we do is about having protection at every layer possible. So whether it be a Chromebook or a computer or a camera or a badge reader that is used to enter and exit the building, every one of those things we have different types of security software and controls for. The biggest way you look at this is what the principle in the security world we call it ‘defense in depth.’ The idea is there's not just one magic bullet, there's not two, there's not three. There's as many as we can put into place because if one gets broken, then we have another one, and when we look at those layers, we're always looking to bolster those up where they're the most significant. If you think about that, that number we were talking about earlier, about this idea of four million attempts a day, the attackers only have to be right once in four million. We have to be right every single time, and because of that, we spend a lot of . . . a little bit of losing sleep about it. Part of that is because of the stewardship focus of it as IT professionals in a school district. We have our kids that go to the school district. We feel that same way about our data. We have the general public who looks to us from a leadership perspective. I have aging parents and grandparents, and they're calling me and saying, “Hey, like what am I supposed to do about this cybersecurity thing?”

Anthony Godfrey:
So all of those layers are important. All of the people in place are important. It's obvious that you take it very, very seriously. Stay with us when we come back more with cybersecurity expert David Bowman.

Male Voice:
Never miss an episode of the Supercast by liking and subscribing on your favorite podcasting platform. Find transcripts for this episode and others at supercast.jordandistrict.org.

Female Voice:
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Anthony Godfrey:
You've talked about a culture of cybersecurity and cyber awareness, making sure that we're all very tuned in to what could go wrong and how we need to protect ourselves, and it's interesting the number of ways that people who may wish us harm or want to get information from us might try to make their way in. So tell us about some of the things that you have done to train folks to really be aware and pause and think things through. Because what I feel like is that we're on the, you know, we're online and things move fast online, and sometimes where I'm going through email, I'm going through text messages, I'm trying to do that quickly, and it can be easy to click on something that we shouldn't. So talk to me about awareness and preparing people to avoid those pitfalls.

David Bowman:
Yeah, you know you actually just used a good example word when you talked about ‘fast.’ One of the most common things that happens is we are in a hurry to do all the things that we're doing, and when we're fast or not fully thinking about it as we're going through it, that's one of the ways to easily get tripped up. So one of the phrases we try to help people remember is the idea of ‘think before you click.’

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

David Bowman:
The other thing is, then I get a lot of emails like, “Hey I think I clicked a thing, I'm not sure,” and then people feel this reluctance to be like “I clicked the thing” as if somehow they did something wrong.

Anthony Godfrey:
I bother you before I click ‘the thing.’ I will email you at all hours and say, “Can you open this in your sandbox and tell me whether this is real or fake?”

David Bowman:
Even to that statement, you would think that me, as a very specifically focused cybersecurity professional, would feel comfortable saying “Hey, I don't click on the wrong stuff.” Well, guess what? I have news for you. I do. There are no things that are always foolproof.

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

David Bowman:
Things become more and more sophisticated. So what the advice we give people is really about what you do after you click something that made you go, “Okay, something felt weird here.”

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah, I guess if you're deleting something, you can delete quickly, but if you're clicking on something, you want to pause and think it through. For those who are listening and thinking, “Okay, what should I be doing differently at home? What can I do to partner with the District to make sure that data is secure or just when family members or I am online? What are some tips for me to be sure that my information is safe?”

David Bowman:
I used to use this phrase called ‘be politely paranoid.’ The cyber threats in the world have made it now so polite is not the way to do it. Just be paranoid. The good news is if it's something that really does need your attention, they're not just gonna text you or just call you or just email you. So just because it feels like urgent in the moment, and that's the one like, “Oh no, I have to respond to this because this is super important.” If it's really super important, it's not gonna be the only way you see that contact. There's two major technology principles that we've implemented within the District, but are super important for everyone. The biggest thing is using multiple methods of verifying something. So this is called 2FA or MFA. Or you're trying to log into your bank and they're like, “Okay, we're gonna text you a security code.”

Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.

David Bowman:
The reason for that is it's extremely easy to get portions of data based on what we have online and the more methods that are involved in doing verification make you more safe.

Anthony Godfrey:
I do want to say, I know you won't say this yourself, but I really appreciate the level of expertise that you bring personally to this. I know that when other districts or organizations have issues, you're someone that they call for additional help. You are heavily involved with a committee at the state level to try to get support from the legislature to fund additional supports because not all districts have the infrastructure that we do to provide the layers of protection that we do. I also want to shout out the Information System staff and really every staff member in the District that helps, you know, do their part to make sure that we stay safe in Jordan. David, thank you very much for taking the time to talk with me and for all the hard work that you and others in the Information Systems department do to keep us safe.

David Bowman:
Thanks.

Anthony Godfrey:
Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Supercast. Remember, “Education is the most important thing you will do today!” We'll see you out there.