Episode 202: History Teachers Share Passion for Studying the Past and Rich History of Utah

On this episode of the Supercast, as our state holiday Pioneer Day approaches on July 24th, we sit down with two history teachers who have a passion for studying the past, bringing it back to life, and educating kids in the classroom about Utah's rich history.

We're here with two of our Utah Studies teachers here at Hidden Valley to talk with them about some Utah history given that our state holiday of July 24th is coming up. So first just introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about how you got into teaching Utah history.

Christina Jacobs:
I'm Christina Jacobs, and I'm the Utah Studies teacher at Hidden Valley Middle. And I got into Utah Studies actually kind of by accident. I was originally supposed to be teaching US History in a different district. And last minute, they moved me to Utah History. And so I had to actually learn it because I wasn't born and raised here. And so that was a fun experience of being able to learn alongside the students. And then when I moved districts to Jordan the next year, I then just taught Utah Studies and I've taught it ever since.

Anthony Godfrey:
Fantastic.

Madison Feist:
My name is Madison Feist. I teach at Fort Harriman Middle School. I've been in the district for nine years now. I started teaching at a high school and then switched over to a middle school. Always thought I would switch over to US History at some point, but I just fell in love with Utah history and I never want to switch. It's the best.

Anthony Godfrey:
What are some of the things you love about Utah history?

Madison Feist:
I, like her, did not grow up in Utah. So I was like, what is Utah history about? This is gonna be so boring.

Anthony Godfrey:
Now I'm gonna triple down on that because I was not born and raised in Utah. And then I came here, I'm like, you mean everybody studied Utah history?

Madison Feist:
I know!

Christina Jacobs:
Exactly.

Madison Feist:
In 7th grade? There’s a core?

Anthony Godfrey:
I did not study Indiana history in seventh grade.

Madison Feist:
There was no California history.

Christina Jacobs:
There was no New Jersey history.

Anthony Godfrey:
Oh, see? From three different states. It’s alright, here we go. And so I've always felt a little bit behind. It's like I had my own personal pandemic during Utah studies itself, and I didn't get a chance to learn that. So that's partially why I've been so excited to talk with you guys. It's like, all right, let's fill in the gaps for me as much as anything else. So anyway, you again, were not born and raised in Utah, so you were interested in learning.

Madison Feist:
Yeah, and starting off again, I thought I would move to US history or go back to a high school, but I fell in love first with middle school students and that age group and second with Utah studies and the fact that it was not boring. It proved me wrong. It’s very interesting.

Anthony Godfrey:
Let's just talk about a few of the maybe misunderstandings about Utah history. Are there some things that people generally think are true of Utah history that are, in fact, inaccurate?

Christina Jacobs:
Yes. I mean, and I know that I was guilty of this, too, especially in college when I had to take a Utah history class. I always just thought it was Native Americans, mountain men, and Mormons. And that was it. And there is so much more to that, too. And even when you dive deep into those topics, there's so much more that meets the eye. And then when you kind of dive deeper and get into the early 20th century and then start learning about the different groups that come here and learning about inventions that are made here, learning about, like the progressive movement, learning about how we mobilize for war and how uranium was used with the uranium boom down in Moab and things like that, I then realized there's so much more than just those little generalizations we just throw them into.

Anthony Godfrey:
So there are there's a deeper, richer history than some might believe. How about for you Maddie?

Madison Feist:
I'd say very similarly I have a lot of parents come very concerned to back to school night, or the first parent-teacher conferences thinking that this is going to be some sort of Sunday school class and it could not be further from that. It is not only religious history. It goes through the lives and experiences of so many different groups of people and it's really interesting to sit it next to general US history because the Utah experience is a little bit different and just to see how Utah became part of the United States and how they contributed to world events is really interesting.

Anthony Godfrey:
Let's talk a little bit about statehood. One of the things that has reminded me of that process a little bit is this discussion about the flag and the change in the state flag. Because the state flag to me seemed to represent how American we wanted to show that we were here in Utah with an American flag on our flag and lots of symbolism around the United States of America. So tell me a little bit about Utah becoming a state.

Madison Feist:
Utah wanted to be a state so bad. Just a few years after the pioneers arrived, they applied for statehood. They applied, I think it was seven times for statehood over--

Anthony Godfrey:
Seven times.

Madison Feist:
Seven times.

Anthony Godfrey:
That's like the story about the movie script that was shopped around and all the studios said no, and finally somebody said yes.

Christina Jacobs:
Yes, and they were rejected six times.

Anthony Godfrey:
Rejected six out of seven, yes.

Madison Feist:
And it was over a span of 50 years that they were applying for statehood and they came back every time and said that there was something wrong that they had to fix. And that was really disheartening for the people. And it's an interesting story because they fled, these people who are applying for statehood fled the United States for religious freedom. And two years after they get here, they switch and they're like, we love the United States and we wanna be a part of them. Obviously, they become a territory just a year after they get here. But they tried so hard to become a state, and it wasn't until eventually, polygamy was illegal in the state that they were able to become a state. There were other issues, but that ended up being the largest issue.

Anthony Godfrey:
And I've never heard it said quite that way. Of course, if you think about it, it's absolutely accurate, but they fled the United States. Because ultimately the territory became a state, it doesn't feel that way, but that's exactly what happened. Christina, other thoughts about statehood?

Christina Jacobs:
Well, I agree with Maddie 100% on all of that. And one thing that was interesting when she said that they had been fleeing the United States, which was true because their religious freedoms weren't protected, even though when you look at the First Amendment, they should have been. What's interesting is that the US Army approaches them while they're on their journey west to say, “we need your help in fighting the war against Mexico” when they were literally fleeing to what would have been Mexican territory because they were looking at getting away at that point. And so then, in turn, some of them decided to go with the US Army and go and fight for the US freedoms and everything else. And when one looks at it, it's like they– it's not that they hated the United States. And it's not that they were fleeing because they didn't  believe in it anymore. It was just that their rights weren't protected, so they were trying to go to a place where they could be. They still believed in those principles. I think that's very evident when immediately they become a territory and they immediately want to apply for statehood

Anthony Godfrey:
In other words, they were trying to go somewhere where they felt like they could follow the law that was actually in place.

Christina Jacobs:
Yeah

Anthony Godfrey:
So let's talk about people. Who are some of your favorite figures in Utah history?

Christina Jacobs:
Martha Hughes Cannon is one that comes to my mind,

Anthony Godfrey:
Let’s talk about Martha.

Christina Jacobs:
Mainly because, and this is just a fun fact that I know, is that she was a polygamist wife, but she also was very interested in politics. And when Utah became a state she actually ran to be a senator. More of a state senator, not at our national level because that couldn't happen yet, and she was running against her husband and she won. And there's a statue of her up at the Capitol building and I read that they're going to be putting it in the US Capitol as well. But there was no animosity between them afterwards, which some people would think that there might be with some political tension and whatnot, but instead, they seem to have a decent marriage. But then also kind of see how she was able to kind of break through that glass ceiling, which was kind of unheard of at that time.

Anthony Godfrey:
And she could not have been a Utah or a Senator representing Utah at the national level at that point. Like it was not possible.

Christina Jacobs:
Yeah, not until 1920 with the 19th Amendment.

Anthony Godfrey:
That's right. That's right. That's the fascinating thing for me is it was a state senator position, but that was the highest she could achieve at that point. And I've seen that statue, I think it's a really cool story. And you're right you would assume that that would create some serious marital tension but apparently not. Tell me about some of your favorites of Maddie.

Madison Feist:
Brigham Young is so interesting. He has some interesting views and just the way that he set up Utah I think is so impressive, and is studied across the world as an incredible method of setting up a city. One of the projects I have my students do that's really fun is they are put in the shoes of Brigham Young. They have 5,000 people with them, they have a blank plot of land, and they have to create a city. And what they come up with is insane, like Donutville. They have some weird ideas, love them. But his ideas were so brilliant and so visionary for the future of what Utah could become. A lot of what we have now is thanks to Brigham Young and his forethought on a lot of these ideas.

Anthony Godfrey:
So he was an urban planner in addition to a list of many other things.

Madison Feist:
Yes, exactly.

Anthony Godfrey:
Tell me some of the things that we're still benefiting from that initial design and those initial ideas.

Madison Feist:
Yeah, so the grid pattern that Salt Lake City and a lot of other cities are based off of all the way down to where I teach in Herriman and here in Bluffdale.

Anthony Godfrey:
Streets that are as wide as this school.

Madison Feist:
Exactly, right? They are still - the number system still goes back to Temple Square, even down here, which is really interesting that it has stuck around for so long. And then again, the wide streets. So I don't think we have as much traffic as we could in downtown Salt Lake and historic buildings didn't have to be torn down to put in a bike lane or a turn lane or multiple lanes where previously, it was just wagons. You can see in front of the Governor's Mansion, there's still a step in front of the house, like right along the curb that was the step that they used to get out of a wagon.

Anthony Godfrey:
Really?

Madison Feist:
Which is so interesting. There's a few along, what street is that? North Temple?

Anthony Godfrey:
I've been there before, but I've never noticed that so I'll have to take a look, yeah.

(upbeat music)
Anthony Godfrey:
Stay with us. When we come back, I'll look at Utah history before the pioneers arrive.

(upbeat music)
Anthony Godfrey:
What are some of the things that kids learned in this class that surprised them the most, do you think, about Utah State history?

Christina Jacobs:
One thing I love to show them is historic lands of Native Americans past and present. And we have a discussion about reservations and the different treaties that the Native Americans were forced to sign or that they signed thinking it meant something, but instead that it meant something else, or the US going back on their word. But to me, it's really interesting having them see that because then we talk about, you know, different places that they've been here in Utah and how they've found arrowheads, like even in their own backyards or other things too, then recognize that Native Americans did live here and they still do, just maybe not in the same capacity as they did back in the 1700s and previous to that.

Anthony Godfrey:
I would imagine that's a pretty good portion of Utah history curriculum is pre-territory, pre-statehood, the native population and the impact that settlers had on those populations.

Christina Jacobs:
And also learning about the different conflicts that happened. There were hundreds of conflicts between the Native Americans and the settlers here. But we mainly only focus on about the big five, if you will. Like Bear River, the Goshute War, the Posey War, which was the last grandstand, if you will, and then a couple of others. We don't go into as much details on some of the smaller conflicts just because if we did, it would have to be its own class because there were so many clashes.

Anthony Godfrey:
Tell me about one of those.

Christina Jacobs:
We'll talk about Bear River just because that's probably the one- that's the one I know that I use for a document analysis. And, Maddie, I think you might do that as well. It's an incident that occurs up at Bear River, pretty much in the present-day Utah-Idaho border, between the U.S. Army and the Shoshone. And there's a lot of things that end up factoring into it, like conflicts between the Mormons and immigrants moving west, conflicts between the Mormons and the Army, conflicts between Mormons and the Shoshone, and the Shoshone and immigrants and things like that. It all comes to a head in January of 1863 where the US Army goes through and pretty much the entire Shoshone tribe is destroyed there. Historians technically debate this and the US Army still holds to its official report saying that it's a battle, but the Native Americans on the other hand, specifically the Shoshone tribe, say that it's a massacre and there's evidence to support both sides depending on which documents you look at.

Anthony Godfrey:
Tragic no matter how you look at it.

Christina Jacobs:
Exactly. And so I have my students do an analysis, like a document analysis, going through different documents and then writing their own argument of saying, "Here's what happened there." And then they determine whether it's a battle or a massacre. And I only--and I refer to it as an incident in class even though that downplays it because I want them to figure out where they lie based on the evidence that they pull out, where do they feel that it is?

Anthony Godfrey:
And what you're talking about is a document review of primary documents that students use to make up their own mind. And I love, like you said, it's downplaying a terrible tragedy to call it an incident, but it provides that opportunity for students to make up their own mind based on the direct evidence that others would use to make that determination as well. Yeah, that's what a great learning experience and I'll bet it's very sobering for them to consider that.

Christina Jacobs:
Yeah.

Madison Feist:
Yeah, there's a few days that my English teacher asks, "What are you talking about today?" They're so sad and that is definitely one of them. I think students are surprised that Utah history is not just like sunshine and rainbows. There are really, really tragic and dark parts of history that are hard to stomach. Like Bear River Massacre, like the Mountain Meadows Massacre, like different aspects and sections of polygamy and what the US thought of Utah and what Utah had to say about the US. There's just like a lot of stuff in our curriculum that is surprising to students.

Anthony Godfrey:
Now you have a couple of posters here as well and we have the benefit of being at your school so I know you have some of these things in your classroom here. Tell me about these posters.

Christina Jacobs:
So my students are also asked to do an ancestor project. We tie this into two of our standards. One which asks about how our own family history is kind of connected to Utah's history, and then one that deals with people and culture and learning about different cultures. And so I kind of combine the two into doing an ancestor immigration project where our students find an ancestor who immigrated to the United States from another country in their family line. And I give them a month to do it mainly because the hardest part, honestly, is finding that ancestor.

Anthony Godfrey:
Sure.

Christina Jacobs:
I know for some families it might be a little bit easier than others. And so then I just have them answer basic questions like who were they? What did they do? When did they immigrate? Did they come with people? Did they come by themselves? And kind of tell their story a little bit. And the country that they came from, tell me a little bit about that country's customs and like traditional foods and things like that. To kind of bring in that cultural piece because sometimes students realize like, "Oh, that's why we have, we participate in this tradition or that's why we make this dinner and whatnot." And then the last question I ask is how and why did your immediate family come here to Utah? Some students, their families came with the pioneers in 1847 or a little bit later, and then others, many of them came here just recently, whether it is for asylum or whether it's because families got jobs here or they wanted to be closer to other members of their family and etc.

Anthony Godfrey:
Great. Well, that personalizes learning at a very deep level. So let's do that project for ourselves. What brought us all to Utah? I'll tell you, I'll start. What brought me to Utah is my grandpa lived here, my dad grew up here, he went to Ogden High School and moved away and went to school and had jobs and then when I was in high school we moved back here so I lived here since I was in high school.

Madison Feist:
I went to school, college, in Idaho and it was far too rural to have enough student teaching in place so I student taught in the Jordan District and here I stayed.

Anthony Godfrey:
Okay, awesome.

Christina Jacobs:
Growing up in New Jersey, obviously, that's a little ways from here, but I came out here for school. I attended BYU and then kind of like Maddie, we did student teaching, but I ended up doing a teaching internship instead down in a Nebo District and then I stayed because my teaching license was here and I got jobs in Alpine District and then later on I moved here to Jordan District and I've been here in Jordan District since 2016.

Anthony Godfrey:
Well whatever brought you here, all these things that got you to this point, I'm really grateful for. I'm glad you're here and glad you're doing such a great job teaching our students Utah Studies. And thank you very much for taking the time this morning.

Christina Jacobs:
Thank you.